Microsoft Hires Seinfeld To Make It Cool. But Is Seinfeld Cool?

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jerryseinfeld.jpgIt turns out there's a whole new part of Microsoft's $300 million attempt to become cool (beyond the "See? Look! People don't really hate Vista, they just think they do!" ads we've already discussed): a huge new ad campaign featuring Bill Gates and Jerry Seinfeld.

Specifically, Microsoft is paying Seinfeld $10 million to pal around with Gates and joke about how cool Windows is. The goal of the campaign? To get that nerdy Windows guy in the Apple ads out of people's heads.

Will it work?

No.

Microsoft will never be cool in the same way that Apple is cool--in part because companies with 90% market share are almost never cool (sorry, but nine out of ten kids in the class can't be cool). As Apple gains market share, by the way, it will become less cool: The cool kids don't like to robotically embrace what everyone else does--that's just not cool.

The good news for Microsoft is that being cool has never been a part of its success formula. The image of Vista is beyond saving at this point--and, yet, it has outsold every previous version of Windows at this point in its lifecycle by a mile. People don't buy Microsoft products because they love them or the company: They buy them because they have no other choice (or didn't, before the Internet came along and began to break apart the Windows hegemony, making room for Apple's resurgence).

People do like Bill Gates, though. And they do like Seinfeld (though we expect his appeal is mainly to fogies like us). So maybe the ads will create some sort of a halo effect that will make people feel better about Microsoft--even as they thank the Lord they can finally buy something else.

But this still won't solve Microsoft's real problem, which has nothing to do with perception. Microsoft's real problem is that its monopoly is eroding. And even Seinfeld won't be able to change that.

See Also:
Microsoft's Real Problem: The Second Coming of Apple
Microsoft's Last Ditch Attempt To Persuade People that Vista Doesn't Suck



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58 Comments

drat said:
Maybe grab Mike Phelps and do a swim compete with Seinfeld or Gates :-)

Dimitri said:
That has always been the biggest problem with Microsoft: they rely on marketing rather than innovation to stay afloat. They learned a bad lesson when with some glitz and glamor they were able to establish supremacy of an operating system that crashed every 5 hours (Windows 95) over OS/2. But, at least Windows 95 was a real improvement over 3.1, and people were willing to forgive the bugginess. On the other hand, Vista is NOT an improvement over XP. It's simple arm-twisting by a monopoly to force its customers to throw out a perfectly functioning product and buy the same thing with a few cosmetic changes but no real improvement. This time, marketing might not be enough.

R-Man said:
The bottom-line: Microsoft has taken the Windows concept as far as it can go. While they thrash around trying to find the right mix of tweaks, disguised patches, and superficial improvements to an old paradigm, Apple and Google are off building an entirely new metaphor. Microsoft wants to "own" the software on the desktop (yawn), while Apple wants to own the digital media world, and Google wants to own information navigation. Both Apple and Google can charge a premium/drive higher margins because people will pay up for cool.

Microsoft's strategy of being last to the new markets (i.e. search), with inferior technology coupled with a lame strategy to coerce usage via Windows leverage, is, well, done. The ultimate irony is that they've become IBM. Big, slow, self-important, and a ripe financial engineering play. Is there any doubt Lou Gerstner would take this job too? Reduce head count by 40%, use your massive cash hoard to buy back stock, pay occasional homage to tradition and the founders, send chirpy emails... on your way to $100/share.

Kevin K. (URL) said:
(linkback) Thrive or Fail? Microsoft hires Seinfeld for $10M. How's that gonna work out? [VOTE] - http://www.thriveorfail.com/ad372

Alan (URL) said:
Cool works only if a PC is considered to be a gadget. But it's not.

Apple with its iPod and iPhone can afford to play in that field.

CB Guy said:
Worst. Idea. Ever.

ej said:
Great analysis.
The problem isn't marketing, it's the product.
Geez, this is weak. $40 billion for the struggling Yahoo and now $300 million for pushing Vista.
Why don't they just acknowledge the weakness of the product, and promise a much better update. They should also admit that IE7 is an abomination.
But, I love Jerry, so good for him.

How are they going to get around the fact that Seinfeld only had Macs in his apartment?

Huh said:
That's really strange because I've heard that Jerry Seinfeld is a huge Mac fan.. I guess for $10 Million he can put those feelings aside.

joeblow said:
On MSFT; Live Search, Mojave, the Analysts' Meeting, Strategy, Vista, Seinfeld and Cool:

-Live Search -- much better in its newest capacity. I'm using it daily as an experiment in personal objectivity. However, one can only wonder at the totally irresponsible lack of c-o-m-m-o-n s-e-n-s-e demonstrated by MSFT by attempting to offer Live Search as competition for something that its very name, "Google" is the formation of an action verb. It would be the equivalent were MSFT to start an overnight express shipping service to compete with Fed-Ex... and attempt to win new customers by naming it "Live Shipping." Were Ballmer to have some magical mystery strategy to give an immediate boost to Live Search, my impression of the best Black Magic would be to change the name to something exciting, interesting and capable of referral appeal. I pride myself at having most of my oars in the water and an IQ above snail level, but, swear-to-God, I can not manage to come up with a nickname for "Live Search" or a quick moniker or phrase to recommend it to anyone. One can not refer a friend or associate to it easily; media personalities, especially TV and radio, can't phrase a recommendation for it; commentators, teachers, public leaders, government officials... with all these persons, it's the same as for me... they can't recommend a 'Live Search' of anything, easily.

Word-of-Mouth is the most powerful source of recommendation known to mankind, and it’s free! The most amazing thing to me is that MSFT evidently doesn’t understand why it is that this free commodity with limitless value is almost unavailable to them for marketing the use of Live Search.

-Mojave -- At least on its initial thesis and presentation, it’s maybe the most interesting and exciting advertising that MSFT's done in years. I'm only surprised that they didn't call it "Live Experiment." I'm sure there's probably a movement within MSFT's management to change it to something with "Live" in it, since they must have a Death Wish about that word.

-Analysts’ Meeting – I’ve been to MSFT’s website for a replay of most of the presentation. I found it to be more impressive than might’ve been predicted by the market’s reaction to MSFT’s 1-cent “miss.” I think Ballmer adequately demonstrated why MSFT’s Online Operations financial performance will be inconsequential for the next few quarters. Ballmer’s just over the last few months (year or so) finally become serious about the Internet. MSFT’s clearly not going to throw reckless money at the Internet, but they will spend big money. That effort will be evaluated in the interim, prior to profitability, almost totally on search query share, regardless of how they get it, or fail to get it.

If they gain query share, with the name of their search engine, “Live Search,” it’ll be purely in spite of its name, not because of the name or assisted by the name. I’ve just demonstrated above why the most valuable source of recommendation for the service is unavailable to MSFT. It’s not intellectually unavailable… it’s functionally, l-i-n-g-u-i-s-t-i-c-a-l-l-y and socialistically so… If MSFT succeeds with Live Search in gaining query share, it’ll be because they can at the same time carry this linguistic problem like running a race while also carrying a sandbag on their shoulders. We will see.

-Strategy – Simple and stated succinctly by Chris Liddell. Across all divisions, MSFT pursues a strategy of using appropriate long-term investment to drive earnings growth, rather than a short-term focus on margin improvement. In my opinion, as it relates to search, Ballmer’s finally serious about this formerly unloved redheaded stepchild and that seriousness and newfound dedication is still too young to evaluate. We will see if the renewed dedication will show any progress in query share, but it will still take time.

-Vista – Like a gigantic tanker ship, it has a relatively small rudder because of the extreme success MSFT has already had with its former op system, XP, but when the rudder of obsolescence finally begins to dry up the XP chatter, the rudder will gain greater purchase:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/purchase

…and MSFT will probably continue to get the rolling earnings growth from Vista that they expect. I don’t think however that even MSFT would deny that the whole Windows genre is about to undergo a metamorphosis that hybridizes its desktop monopoly. From everything I can observe, this may be the first op sys introduction in the Windows series that just temporarily and somewhat significantly outran the average in-use system requirements of PC computers and possibly the devices they use. MSFT lost some enthusiasm for acceptance of Vista because so many in-use systems run so well on XP with machines that would be arguably stretched to their capacity limits or above the limits with Vista.

Finally, Seinfeld:

Who can know how effective this new marketing overture will be until we see it rolled out to media, but Seinfeld still has the draw necessary to create spontaneous water cooler chat. I don’t think MSFT’s intentions here will be to try to make Vista cool… not that they wouldn’t appreciate that happening, but it’s not what they expect with this campaign. I think they’re just going to try to turn that rudder a tad more on the tanker while at the same time maneuvering the tanker toward Windows 7. Too, I can’t believe they wouldn’t cross-market the improvements in Live Search. But, then… there’s that name again and I don’t know what Seinfeld can do for the name.

I’m reminded of the start of most of the Seinfeld episodes, that short spot where Jerry is in his club performance and telling jokes mostly in the form of funny and ironic anecdotes. That was the secret of Seinfeld, the irony found in much of our daily existence.

I’m wondering though just how Seinfeld can finish a joke when he’s deprived of the punch line. Google’s punch line occurs when the teller enthusiastically suggests that his audience quickly apply the action verb to gain the punch line: That is, “Google it!” But, Seinfeld could earn his millions with MSFT were he only able to convince them of one thing – Live Search is not an action verb… it can’t be delivered as a punch line. The tongue and the brain have no way of doing that easily. It’s not an easy intellectual action verb.

If you’re listening, MSFT, that’s the problem… the problem is in the name. Kill it before you blow hundreds of millions, if not billions, trying to make a punch line when there isn’t one… before you spend billions trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. Do this… go Google the term “action verb.”

Here, I’ve looked up one link for you:

http://www.kyrene.org/schools/brisas/sunda/verb/1action.htm

But remember, action verbs can be created by common usage (Xerox, FedEx), but the tongue has to like it. Google works with the tongue easily in this fashion. Live Search doesn’t, and won’t ever.

You have to make Live Search both a wonderful experience for the user and something the user would enthusiastically and easily recommend at the water cooler. You’re possibly getting halfway there with the progress on Live Search, but it’s going to have problems at the water cooler stage.

NURREDIN (URL) said:
"WINDOZE" sucks. They can hire naked Playboy Bunnies to do the ads and that still won't improve the operating system. Microsoft has become typical of large American companies who feel it's their right to force bulls*** product on you and you're supposed to like it.Windows is terrible, Explorer is Jurrassic,and they just don't get it. The people who run the company are too far removed from the people who actually use Windows.They need to start all over from scratch. I run an internet record company and if it wasn't for Apple I'd be bankrupt. Windows is just too slow, too cumbersome, and too convoluted. I need quick,simple, and reliable EVERY time I use my computer. Windows just doesn't get it for people who rely on their computers for their livelihood.

KG said:
Too bad they couldn't take a leaf from their own UK division's book: hire Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. Cheaper than Seinfeld, funnier and more tech-relatable, too.

It's a commercial about nothing! Or maybe they'll just have Seinfeld say things like "what is the deal with apple? you can't eat it, or grow it, or make it into sauce." Either way, it's good to see him getting work.

Joe Reed said:
I told my wife about this. Her comment was:

"...and for $300 million, improving their product never entered their minds?"

Go MS...LOL

TV1Turtle (URL) said:
Yeah the Mojave experiment was rather...pathetic...and MS put in on like every video of BarelyPolitical spoofs...funny post, Henry, "9 out of 10 kids can't be cool" lol what a cool line.

Thanks for the reflection.

TV1Turtle

bigshott said:
So, by hiring an old comic that does not have a show anymore, that's going to be cool how?
What, Ed McMahon turned you down/

This reminded me of something Jerry's character said in episode 153, The Yada Yada, which first aired in April 1997: "I gotta get on that Internet. I'm late on everything!"

And Bill Gates said, in a July 1998 speech (http://is.gd/1Nq6), "Sometimes we do get taken by surprise. For example, when the Internet came along, we had it as a fifth or sixth priority."

Well, maybe Bill and Jerry are, indeed, a good combination! ;-)

Darryl365 (URL) said:
Many seem to believe Apples' success is only about being cool. While coolness is likely a factor, I'd contend that the comparative functionality to similar products, on the market has far more to do with Apples' success than being cool.
I'm in no way suggesting that Apples' products are perfect. Its' simply that, the nature of the business model(integration of hardware and software and the control over those systems), allows them advantages that the competition have yet to match.
MS can continue with all the different superficial strategies designed to convince users that their experiences using MS products haven't been what its' been. I don't think users are going to be convinced until the experiences changes.
It would seem that MS understands that the tight integration of hardware and software (Zune and xBox) is the secret to Apples' success with user experience, but the structure of the company, being primarily a software developer, will not allow them to completely duplicate Apples' business model.
Seinfeld, The Rolling Stones, Girls Gone Wild...may make MS appear cool, it will not change the dynamics of their business model, thus will not change the user experience. Thus will not make them look as cool as Apple.


Chip said:


Henry, I think your insight is spot-on, which explains why the iPod is so uncool.

What a great analyst you are.

Hehateme said:
Image is everything.

anonymousman said:
Okay, Seinfeld is a Mac, Gates is a PC. I see where they're going with this.

David E said:
I just can't believe this. $300,000,000 ad campaign and they get Seinfeld.

Was the ghost of Edward G. Robinson busy?

Unbelievable.

Anton said:
If you have to tell people that you're cool...

More importantly, what is microsoft good at these days...
1. Desktop OS is a commodity thx to the net
2. Mobile OS blows
3. Xbox - one bright spot
4. Hardware forays - forgettable
5. Office - no need to upgrade anymore
6. Servers software - no
7. Net offerings - snooze

They had their monopoly stick and its going away...Their best hope is to become IBM

and Seinfeld was NEVER cool. The people who quote/remember seinfeld episodes were always nerds.

Jeffrey Harrington (URL) said:
Listen,

If you read Fast Company's article a few months back, Alex Bogusky is behind this. Same guy who brought back the Burger King mascot, invented the Mini Cooper brand, brought VW into the 21st century and a slew of other products.

He's an advertising god and if anyone can turn around Vista, it's these guys.

http://cpbgroup.com/

So give it a chance.

jet said:
so AMEX.

Greg said:
You touched on a valid point - that too much cool can become anti-cool. Apple is getting so cool, that its cliche. Now that every kids has an iPod or an iWhatever - the truly cool kids are going to be looking for the next big thing/brand. Maybe Google, maybe something else entirely. But no one (even Apple) can retain a monopoly on cool. Today's cool will be tomorrow's "so yesterday".

Gubatron said:
People don't buy Microsoft products, Microsoft products are shoved into people's new computers.

Wonder how things would be if apple would sell OSX on a Box and people could choose between OSX and Windows

KenC said:
Just because Seinfeld had Macs in his NYC set, doesn't mean he uses Macs. Perhaps, it was just the set director that liked Macs, as they are more distinctive than other computers.

Jerry has also done a headless HP ad, recently, remember the annoying Bee Movie references? So, his connection to Apple is broken. Paying him $10M to advertise for MS is incredible. They could have got Kramer for $100k. I think the PC industry is lining Jerry's retirement plan, seeing as Jerry's last two employers have been HP and now MS.

Anton said:
Crispin also brought you the Ask.com campaign that was a total failure for their business.

When big monopolies advertise how great their products are with celebrities and fake consumer testimonals, it comes off as creepy and big brother-ish.

Empty marketing without solid products behind is worthless.

If Vista and Zune had killed it, they wouldn't need fading celebrities and faux self-deprecating billionaires in their ads.

Alex Schleber (URL) said:
@joeblow - looks like you've been reading up on the branding rules/linguistics stuff I've been pushing for a while, good - though longish - analysis... :)

Besides the action verb thing, the biggest problem is that "Live Search" creates a generic that is lacking "stickiness" in people's minds. At worst it could be confusing, as in someone at the office saying "Go do a Live Search". "As opposed to a canned search?" Etc.

MSFT themselves expresses part of that same confusion by having made live.com the domain for "Live Search"... they would have been better off naming the thing "searchy.com" or "livelee" or some such.

If MSFT doesn't right its branding ship, none of the advertising, using Seinfeld or anyone else, will work (I like the various suggestions made in the comments by everyone).

As to the various angst expressed about Apple becoming uncool to some due to larger scale adoption, this issue may be overstated due to a shifting mindset with the "Millenials" generation that appears to be more tolerant of group cohesion and mainstreamed movements, recently read a good article about this here:

What Obama Can Teach You About Millennial Marketing (via Advertising Age)

As for Vista's long-term prospects, what many of the commentators appear to be missing is that there is a whole generation now being raised on Mac/iPod/iPhone/iXYZ. Yes, MSFT won't disappear any time soon, but there are bound to be consequences down the road.

If MSFT slips on Windows 7, say until Q2 2010, and offers only marginal improvements over Vista, you might see Apple U.S. share go to somewhere between 10-20%.

"What's with Apple's market share, it goes up, it goes nearly extinct, it goes up to nearly 20%...".

Oh, and one more (sorry, couldn't resist):

"What's with Bill Gates? He's ruthless, he's a philantropist, he's a ruthless philantropist..."

Chris D. (URL) said:
Great article. I think Microsoft should give up now and don't waste any more money on trying to market themselves differently. You can't change an image.

jbelkin said:
Microsoft's problem cannot be solved by ads. The problem is that the only employees there do not understand consumers at all. At best, they are Siebel able to sell to Enterprise. At worst, when it comes to consumers, they are the DMV. They have an inherent belief that we need them so much we will bend to whatever they offer - much as the DMV is confused they WORK FOR US and not the other way around.

But consumers are not morons - people have SOUNDLY rejected EVERY Microsoft consumer venture since 1998 (the internet era if you're keeping track). MSN, WebTV, MediaPC's, watches, WinCE, MSN search, TabletPC's, Plays4Sure mp3 players, WMA, Zune, Vista and even the XBox ($15 billion in the hole and running 3rd again). Bottom line - when consumers have a choice, they seldom choose MS.

Of course, this is not some recent development. It takes serious work to poison your own name. When you think spyware, malware & problems with your OS - what name goes right along with that? And after a couple million infections? Their solution? To charge people $99 a year. Finally, the OS gets upgraded - but hey, let's confuse consumers with 10 versions ranging from $199 to $899 - and what exactly is the difference between Vista ready & vista capable? THEIR OWN VP's don't even know. What's the XBox fail rate? 15% 35% Don't want to poison the name by recalling it so let's just swap out bad ones as they fail - something most consumers REALLY, REALLY appreciate after spending $500 ... but what do we care, we're "Microsoft."

Bill Gates is of course a smart man but can you imagine him doing anything we "normal consumers" do? Like surf the net, listen to music, watch TV? No, of course - does Larry Ellison pretend he's like one of us? No. And neither should BG - it's very admirable he's trying to solve the world's problms but he should stick to that - hauling him in front of the TV with Jerry Seinfeld is like a bad SNL skit - two bad actors trying to convince us they are like us. Even the ad agency admits they use Macs because the only people who buy PC's are people who cannot afford to change, afraid to change or it's like a desk lamp at work - you just use what they give you. And that's what Windows is now - the OS you get when you don't want to spend more than $499 dollars or when you have no choice. You cannot break that branding with throwing money on TV ads ... just like the $300 million spent on launching Vista. They're nothing wrong with being the 'budget' computer OS - you have to accept the bed you made.

It's like VW trying to sell the $80k Phateon - MS is over-reaching because they think the only reason they are failing to be 'cool' is that we are morons and need to be told by BG & Seinfeld how cool they are when their problem is systemic and part of their 'DMV' DNA now.

And BTW, Apple already sells a Pc that runs Mac OS, Windows and LInux, it's called a MAC MINI. Along with that, you get iLife and in-store support around the world. You really think Apple will let you drag in a Dell into their stores to diagnois a problem?

bobo said:
Microsoft is going to kill Apple....just like they have "killed" google.

These middle aged losers should get back to putting the bugs out of that heap of flaming garbage, Vista de Mojave.

And return some of our cash, too, while they have it.




dj said:
Msft needs to layoff 10k dead wood , and then throw raw meat on the table to make sure seven is kickass light,an works 1st time out of the box.

Alex Schleber (URL) said:
@jbelkin - harsh analysis but mostly true...

"And that's what Windows is now - the OS you get when you don't want to spend more than $499 dollars or when you have no choice."

I'll have to steal that quote for a post... except that really Vista isn't even really a budget OS, it's too expensive for the increasingly diminishing returns that it delivers. (As for the $899 version of Vista, has anyone tried it and can describe what it does that would justify that price level?)

BTW, Bill Gates has at least borderline Asperger's Syndrome (he used to leave his car open/running with the keys in front of the terminal at Seattle's airport all the time before 9/11 put a stop to that via tighter security restrictions...), so by definition he doesn't play well with others. Corporate paranoia, as well as a cut-throat B2B outlook permeates MSFT from head-to-toe, it's their corp. DNA as you say... and you are right that no Seinfeld "Little Trickster" interlude for comic relief will make a dent in that.

MSFT in terms of Archetype Branding is solidly lodged on "The Powerbroker", and any attempts in the past to soften that towards e.g. more of a buddy brand have failed miserably. It just doesn't ring true with anyone.

Listen to all the Apple fanboys whine. They must be scared.

Alex Schleber (URL) said:
@bobo - "Vista de Mojave" - priceless!!!!!!!!!!

I said a few weeks ago that one of MSFT's branding problems with Vista is that it kind of sounds like a real estate development...

lol aol said:
not one of these comments made me laugh.

what's up with that?

joeblow said:
Alex,

We agree almost entirely on the "naming and branding" issues.

Still, although I've challenged several of the commentators at S.A.I. recently to profess and/or renounce all use of Windows OS, anywhere, in the operations of S.A.I., they haven't taken me up on the challenge.

Peter, Henry (and all), you have here another chance to swear off the use of Windows. You can prove to us that you can survive without Windows.
Go ahead... tell us you won't use it in administrative functions of S.A.I., anywhere, and you'll gain credibility with joeblow.

joeblow is demanding... joeblow has to be convinced.

I've said before and I'll say it again now. Most Mac users have to use Windows... s-o-m-e-w-h-e-r-e. Most Windows users don't have to use Mac's OS... a-n-y-w-h-e-r-e.

Show me how I am wrong and prove it with examples. You can deliver on your bias, or you can wimp.

I'm guessing it'll be wimp, but you can prove me wrong if you want to.

You can sway joeblow, right here... right now... or you can wimp.

Which will it be?

David Gerard said:

Viswakarma said:
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
-- Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)

Kirk said:
All this talk of cool is really not the problem with MS. The real problem is that people are sick of the mediocrity with windows and sick of being bullied by them.

joeblow said:
I'd rather be a Fat Boy Geek That Can't Get Laid, and know it... than to really be a wimp and just think I'm cool.

Which are you all?


johndoe said:
The kind that gets laid geek, cool, or wimp?

karla said:
apple is not 'cool', not anymore. that has always been what critics used to put down the apple products -- that apple produces fashion baubles that have no hope of lasting more than a season. msft is not chasing cool, it is fighting for relevance in the consumer space. apple is relevant at this time because they have built their products from a niche (and cool) to mass market consumers.

jerry may be able to put some 'funny' into msft's image. if msft can make fun of itself, i think this can be very successful. a little humility can go a long way in putting a human face into msft's machine like image. maybe jerry can bring down the image of msft to a human scale. that could be worth 300 million.

joeblow said:
johndoe,

Funny.

I was cool in the late 80s for a short time and got laid some, but then I couldn't get programs to run on my Apple machine and I haven't been cool or gotten laid since then. I'm in desperate need of getting laid, but I'd rather have a machine that runs the programs I need than to get laid... Nobody at my employer (thousands upon thousands of workstations) gets laid. I think the IT types like to be trendy and make people think they're getting laid a lot, but, in the final analysis, they don't seem to be getting laid.

I would like to be trendy and get laid, but I would have to have two computers instead of only the one I've needed for the last 20 or so years. Can you suggest a cheaper way for me to get laid?
--
To all:

I'll repeat my challenge to S.A.I. commentators and all that visit this blog:

If you use a Mac OS and have no reason, ever, to use Windows... then come here and tell us how you manage it. Prove it with examples... on the honor system. I'll give you the benefit of the debate point and you may claim you only use Windows for comparative or evaluative purposes for this analysis, but if you use it, in any form, for a-n-y administrative assistance (payroll, accounting, personnel, inventory, etc.), then you can't claim you don't use it at all.

Which is it?...

Anybody?

John said:
I don't know about the whole Apple "coolness" and comparing it to percentages. I would say more people have an Ipod than any other Mp3 player... And I don't know how it became to be a cool thing to spend a crap load of money on products that are way overpriced to begin with. Take the MAC pro, for the price you will pay for one of those you can build a better PC that can easily outperform it. (all Mac Pros are just a server type setup)

Personally I have no love for Apple, I have to deal with their crappy OS every day and talk about crashing, heck I can get it to crash almost as much as I can with Windows, they just make their "blue screen" look less like an OH CRAP EVERTHING HAS GONE WRONG THAT CAN, and more of you need to shut your system down and restart.

Next for innovation the Iphone is no innovation, Europe and Japan and practicly everywhere else has a more advanced Cellphones and a better Wireless network than us. The only main reason everyone wants one over there is they want to be more American. Also the whole apple TV thing... cmon anyone hear of DIVX, not the codec but the actual player. Been done long before and failed miserably. Hell even the Mac pro isn't inovation sure it's thin wooo thin who cares. The battery life isn't comparable to that of a comparable IBM laptop. At least with the IBM you will probably pay less and get a DVDdrive and more than 80 gigs of hard drive space. I mean who really wants to lug around a DVD drive.

I hate how their comercials they think they are revolutionizing everything when they are just trying to re-invent the wheel. Half of the stuff they proclaim they created (GUI operating system, mouse, the first computer) they all copied or stole the idea from someone else (Mostly Xerox).

Now for Microsoft, yeah their old they have the most marketshare and more money per capita than Apple. But their latest OS sucks. Well it doesn't really suck really bad it's nice for higher end machines. But what they need to do is go back to basics and completely rebuild the entire operating system. Hell I wouldn't care how long it took. Sure some innovation would be nice, but you

What most people don't get (especially ones who love MACs) is that unlike MAC Windows has to support thousands of devices where as Apple only has a few because most of their parts are proprietary in a sense. Sure they get parts from Nvidia but it has been specialized for them only. They don't support as much peripherals as Windows and they don't support as many devices far back as Windows. And with being the largest software company of course they are going to get hacked...

Who would want to create and exploit against Apple anyways? Where is the fun in that you found how to crack an Operating system that hold a little over 10% marketshare. When you can attack one that has a +80% marketshare
and can affect more systems.

Well my rants over I don't know if I will be able to stand Sienfeld again but meh. Can't be any worse than the "dude your getting a dell" guy. Or Apples oscar winners...

Dude said:
Jerry made a career of out of pointing out life's overlooked oddities like.. why would you spend $2500 for a computer with a processor worth $150 retail? Because your friend with the same eye frames as you did? If you want to talk about a marketing problem, Apple will have a bigger one than MS when Steve Jobs, the innovation king, unfortunately and sadly will have an untimely and losing battle with you know what.

CAT said:
Well, so far there has been no Windows Mobile during the Oscars, sure.

I don't know how many Mio. $ a marketing company got from Apple for this:
http://www.apple.com/mobileme/
which Microsoft had mor than 12 years ago:
http://www.intelliadmin.com/images/Windows%20ME.jpg

Meaning the cool logo ;-)
Not to mention the stability issues.

Being cool is not everything. Reliable and compatible is at least equally important in the 21st Century. And much of the iPhone and iTunes crap they now try to bundle under one roof sounds pretty much like Microsoft forcing people to use only THEIR browser and THEIR media player.

Sure, there are still things I love on the desktop, like a smart way Mac OS keeps track of an Alias as opposed to Windows links.
Ask Seinfeld, what an Alias is, and I'm sure he'll think of that silly TV series ;-)

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In my opinion this is a total waste of millions of dollars. Microsoft should spend this money on the next OS that will work!

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