Not Cool To Call Your Teacher "Douchebag" on Your Blog, Says US Court of Appeals

Good for her! Stupid ass high school bureaucracy prevents strides and innovations that come from the enlightened and untainted minds of teens. I know first hand.

Disagree. School officials are agents of the government and the 1st Amendment applies, unlike the Stone comment.

she may say whatever she wants, as long as she is prepared to pay the consequences. i suggest she read'on waldens pond' , do they not teach that in school anymore? in any case she has learned one of life's lessons at an early age. as for the parents, its too late.if it wasn't, they could have taught her this instead of taking up the court's time. now, i'd like to see the school sue the parents for legal fees.

Apology might have been enough, sure. But, it sounds like in this case the school administrators were douchebags, too. "Douchbag is as douchbag does," to paraphrase Forrest.

Here's a clue to all high school students.

YOU DO NOT HAVE FULL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!!!!!!

You're a minor. I don't care if you turned 18
in high school. You're still a minor!

Good for the high school!!!!

Looks like Brian is a douchebag too...

Looks like Brian is a douchebag too...

I think one look no further than the ramifications if she was to win this lawsuit. If kids can label their teachers as douchebags, why not allow them to call it to their faces as well. Freedom of speech. How will that all work out in growing into a mature responsible adult? Next, we should be able to call our employers the same thing to their faces, as we have our 1st amendment rights. And if that's the case our freedom of speech rights should not be infringed upon with a firing. I'll sue! Same thing, without a doubt. Wow! Now life really starts to change. No consequences for our own stupidity. How grand! The biggest morons here are this girl's parents who aren't mature enough to know that supporting their daughter even when she is an idiot will only raise her to be as immature as they.

Hey Joe,

I teach high school, and I've never met an "enlightened" student. Its part of the teenage condition to think you know everything. You'll soon realize you don't know a whole lot, and taking basic history, english, and math classes doesn't mean you're more "enlightened" or "untainted" than anyone else. As Socrates said, "The only thing I know is that I know nothing." Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

And about the 1st Amendment thing. You can say whatever you want and not be imprisoned for it. THATs what the 1st Amendment says. But, as the article says, you have to suffer the consequences of your actions. If you call a gang-banger the N word, expect to get your @$$ whupped. If you tell your boss the F off, you can get fired. And, if you diss your teachers on your blog, there can be disciplinary recourse. You're not in jail for it- that's the point of the Bill of Rights.

Actually, 1st Amendment protections apply to students, see Tinker v Des Moines (the controlling precedent on the subject). Last year's Bong Hits 4 Jesus ruling made sense because it was at a school sponsored event, but this case has nothing to do with school advocacy, as it was the student's personal blog that was in question.

Simply put, a bad decision coming out of the 8th circuit, which is hardly surprising.

ZM: The Bong Hits 4 Jesus case did not take place at a school sponsored event or on school property. The 18 year old student in the Bong Hits 4 Jesus case was allowed to leave the school grounds for a school-sanctioned and school-supervised event. The Bong Hits 4 Jesus case makes no sense. How on earth is the school allowed to take a student's rights when they're not on school grounds at a public event? Bong Hits For Jesus did not cause a disruption of educational activities nor was it offensive. The school's right to determine what a student can or cannot say stops at the school doors.

Brian (and anyone else who may know),

I'm looking at my bill of rights in front of me right now and I can't seem to find anywhere on it something saying that one must be a certain age in order to have said rights apply to you. For all the world it looks like minors and adults all have the same rights and it definitely looks like there's no mention anywhere concerning adults but who are still in high school...

It's amazing how The Right to Free Speech has been morphed into a lesser form of the right to protest.
Our rights were never meant to restricted by government nor corporations least of all a place of learning.

Yes, let's teach our children that it's OK to express themselves, OK to have emotions, OK to question authority, but that no one will protect them from that authority abusing them and fucking up their lives in retaliation.

And we wonder why people are such sheep, and we allow the government and big business to run the circus it does.

The kid learns an important lesson. If someone's in a position of authority over you, be sure to be anonymous when you call them douchebags.

*Especially* if they really are, in fact, douchebags.

To clarify (again) that is exactly what the first amendment protects you from, moron. The point of free speech is the right to speak ideas without public punishment for having them. In the case of private business, there are fine lines (hence constant ACLU cases.) In the case of public institutions, like schools, there are not. The school violated the rights of freedom of expression and the courts are failing both the law and the citizenry by stating that the state can punish people for questioning it.

People who can't grasp this simplest of concepts (like you, those courts, Chief Justice Roberts,) blow my mind in how unbelievably stupid you must be. Freedom of speech. That means the right to speak out against authority without punishment. Being punished for disagreeing with authority is 'state censorship'. Anyone can 'say anything and take the consequences. Think about it for even half a second. According to your idiotic interpretation, people in China have free speech. They can say anything they want, they just have to be prepared to face the consequences. Honestly, are you really this uneducated about even basic freedoms?

hey VendorX, do you not know that the supreme court has long ago ruled that there are limits to what one can say? you can not yell 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre without being held responsible, you cannot make threats, even in your own miserable life if you go around calling people 'stupid' you will not have many friends. are you going to sue them for not being your friend after you insult them? yes indeed, the 1st amendment does protect your right to free speech, but grow up and realize that there are consequences to what you say, either a loss of a friend for calling him 'stupid', the loss of the class secretary position for calling the administrator a 'douchebag', a visit from the police if you make threats against another person,and perhaps jail if the threats are deemed likely to be acted on. oh by the way, if you are standing in front of me and call me stupid, expect to get punched in the nose, then we both have to pay the consequences.yes you have the right, but it is not without consequences, the precious little snowflake that called her teacher a douchebag on her blog, which is in the public domain, got what she deserved. if she wrote it in her private diary, it would be different. idiot.

Yet another reason to homeschool your children. Sending your kids to government school is child abuse.

Oh, and Brian, Hitler and Stalin would agree with you.

I think this is very valuable lesson for this young lady. And, I think she was rightfully removed from her position as Secretary.

Being the father of two sons in H.S. I tell them that their schooling is their job and that they are treat their studies as their employment. Their performance will lead to a better position and ultimately better pay.

If I were to come home from work and call my boss a douchebag on my blog I would likely get fired.

What a bunch of fucking docuhes

To jim-->>

VendorX is correct, had this been a private school , or a company then your right the student could have been held responsible.

That is not the case, this is a public school funded by my federal tax dollars, and run under government law. It clearly falls under the Freedom of speech/ expression.

The rest of your post Jim was just stupid, ( try not to punch anybody) and made no sense. VendorX is correct, there is no point in freedom of speech if those in power can retaliate.

Re-read what you wrote next time your upset over what the president did/does, ( don't call him a douchebag, ) he might just retaliate and send your precious little ass to jail

Is that the type of world we want to live in?

The parallel to Stone is invalid. Government officials in the U.S. should not (and, I would hope, can not) retaliate against people for criticizing the government. China is not the U.S. government.

I was wondering if the students have the right to say whatever they want too, does the teacher have the same right? Are they allow to call a student student, even though it is in the Constitution? Or will a law suit come afterwards and the teacher will destroy the minds of the young generation?

I know the first amendment allow freedom of speech, but you also have to keep in mind who you are talking about and who and who has the power. I understand she was not happy with them, but blogging about it gives information on the internet in public eye. On top of that, what is a douchebag? It is a subjective term and one can be subject to a lawsuit. The school did overreact, but it also for kids to test the water of the adult world. To make it fair, what applies to one group, applies to another. A teacher should be allow to make fun of kids without any consequences, but since that is not the case, students should being held accountable for what they say.

The comments were made outside of school. Why should the school be able to punish a student for something that happens outside of their jurisdiction? If it was said in school then by all means retaliate.

Douchbags.

to sudo, do not be silly, because our tax dollars pay for something does not give us the right to ruin it. in other words, our tax dollars pay for all city, state and federal buildings, but you can't set them on fire because you feel your tax dollars paid for them. at a PTA meeting you can't call the principal an asshole [well you can] without being removed from the forum. by burning a tax payer building you deny the other tax payers from its use, by calling the pricipal an asshole you damage his reputation [and your own], thus diminishing his stature. try going up to a senator at a public event and calling him an asshole, see what happens. by the way, the courts agree with me, not you, as long ago, before the current roberts court, they said there are limits to free speech. i have heard our past 4 or 5 presidents called some very nasty things, both publicly and privately, so we can go further in this country then in other countries. the limit is malice, the point where an individual can sue and win is when the other becomes malicious. like i said, you may not agree, but the courts do, and have for over 200 years, liberal and conservative courts agree. now, there are many things that a court decides that i don't like, but i have to obey, otherwise i pay the consequences. just like the precious little snowflake up in connecticut did. like it or not, it does not matter to me, she is no longer class secretary, and you can't do a damn thing about it, she and her parents tried, and the courts agree with me [again].

Jim ->>

Ok once again your example is way off topic, setting a building on fire and calling somebody a name in your public blog is not even close to the same.

Think of it this way, you go home from work log into your blog and post that the governor of your state is incompetent and a moron. Next thing you know, your getting pulled over by the cops for 3 miles over the speed limit. Revenge is what the freedom of state stops.

Lets assume the student went home ( on there own time) and posted that the teacher was incompetent at there and job and listed reasons why. Would you then say the teacher had every right to seek revenge and punish the student?

sudo incompetency is an opinion, douchebag is malicious. i agree with you on this, if you call the governor either one, you will be targeted and get a ticket. that problem can be solved by not going over the speed limit. many of bill clintons enemies, as well as bushs, had their tax returns audited. the arrogance of our leaders is beyond my belief, yes even some of the educators are arrogant,and overstep their authority, but not in the case presented. remember, the girl was removed AFTER she called the person a douchbag, not before.

I graduated from HS about 10 years ago. Same thing, different time. Every highschooler wants to buck the system. Unfortunately, the school has loco parentis. For those of you who finished HS and still think you're a smartass, read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis

While enrolled in a school, the school essentially becomes your PARENT. or "in place of the parents". They are your legal , and responsible , guardian while you are enrolled and either 1.) on school grounds or 2.) on a school-sponsored event (with school-sponsored chaperons). In the last 50 years, teachers haven't been able to physically punish you like your parents (spanking, paddling) except for in certain private schools, WITH parental waiver. You are NOT afforded all of the rights of the Bill of Rights while being a minor AND enrolled in a school. Think about the search-and-seizure procedures of your lockers -- note there is a SIGN stating "we can search ... blah...whenever you want" WITH or WITHOUT you being present during the search.

It's funny that people want , then DON"T want action. kid posts on his blog that he'll kill or beat up someone, then everyone sues when the school knew about it and didn't do anything b/c it was 'off-school'. Kid mouths off, ranting about his teacher, then loses his "special place" on the school government (secretary... really???).

You're 18. You're NOT a beautiful snowflake. You don't know $hit about $hit. And to paraphrase Denis Leary, "and pull up your pants."

hey highschool bureaucrats, you're a bunch of douchebags!!

Naw, Jim, you're just wrong. You've got many people telling you you're wrong, explaining why. Using authority to punish someone for speech is the opposite of free speech. My friend dissing me because I insult him isn't "using authority to punish someone." If the school officials want to tell the girl that they don't like her and refuse to sit next to her at lunch, all power to them. What they can't do is use official authority to punish her or to take away things she's earned that are entirely unrelated to her speech.

The very act itself, so demonstrably unrelated to this out-of-school name calling, merely proves her point. These administrators are acting in an illegal and immature manner that solves no problems and does no good. The difference between them and her? She's a high school student talking on her private blog and they're professional adults wielding government authority.

If you can't comprehend this really overt, obvious and fundamental difference then please god do not vote. You are clearly a complete idiot. And, by the way, I can say that. You can call me an idiot back or complain or even stop reading this thread, but you can't come to my house and shoot me or sue me. See what 'consequences' are? Do you get what free speech is yet, moron?

Seriously, unbelievable that basic comprehension of fundamental civil rights is this atrophied.

VendorX, MY MORONIC FRIEND, I AM RIGHT BECAUSE THE COURTS SAY I'M RIGHT. IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND? as for consequences, god has doomed you to a life of idiocy. your problem isn't with me, its with the courts. i do not agree with lots of court decisions, roe v. wade for instance, but it is decided law, and i can't change it, in fact i can't even prevent a women from doing it, unless i want to go to jail. this case is over, you don't like the result, learn to live with it. or jump off a bridge, in any case i don't care. hell i don't even agree with marbury v madison, but you will have to look that one up, as its beyond your mind.

hey everyone, i just heard bill clinton called a reporter for vanity fair magazine a 'scumbag'. the consequence is of course a further diminishing of his stature. and now we know where our children get these ideas. what a way to end this thread.

Jim -->>

Just because a Judge agrees with your moron ass doesn't make it right. Years ago Judges all agreed it was ok to own blacks, it wasn't right then either.

The fact that your agree it would be ok to call somebody incompetency but, not a douchebag clearly shows your a nut job. Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the ones you agree with.

Do I think the KKK have valid points, nope do they have the right to say it. Hell YES!!

I am very glad nut jobs like you are not in charge!!

hey sudo, WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE IS THE FACT WE NUT-JOBS, AS YOU CALL US, ALREADY RULE. and there is nothing you can do about it, hahahahahahahahaahhahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, but call us names, which shows your level of intelligence. when you can't win the debate, you start the name calling, a common ploy by stupid people. heres one for you, imbecile. now, go look up marbury v madison, and you will see i am correct. then you can apologize. imbecile.

Whew!
I know that the 1st Amendment is important, but guys get a life and start acting more mature and clarify the point you disagree on. Name calling, and taunting each other really doesn't do anything except make you sound pathetic.

I think this case is unlikely to make it to the Supreme Court, surely the parents have better things to spend their money on and more to the point the Court has bigger issues to deal with.

The real question I think has been avoided in the above discussion is whether or not a blog should be considered in or out of school bounds. Any school computer can be used to look up this blog. As Class Secretary the lady in question had to expect her blog would be read by a wide audience of school peers. If no one read this blog we could safely assume she would not have been punished for it. Her actions could be reasonably be considered disruptive to the school, and symptomatic of immaturity for the position she was currently handling for the school. Having to wear a seat belt is not a major loss of liberty. It is doubtful that western democracy will fail because one impulsive young lady is punished for a slip of the pen.

patrick -->>

The problem with your example is that anybody could and can read blogs on how to build bombs, convert handguns, they clearly would be considered disruptive yet they all are protected by freedom of speech.

The teacher clearly wielding government authority over the student. She was not removed due to a poor job done in her position, but because she called him a name.

Jim -->>

Clearly we live in the land of the free, and I can do plenty. I can use my voice to say how the government has been slowly stripping us of our rights. I can stand by citizens I think are being wronged and stripped of those rights.
One day you'll mouth off about something and then cry " freedom of speech" and wonder why nobody is listening.

I am not anybody important, but I could be.. I could be a local cop, judge or IRS inspector, wielding my power to find you and punish you for disagreeing with me. Is that the type of world you want to live in.

Don't bother answering ( or do, I don't care ) I am not going to bother coming back as you seem the type to argue that water is dry even when your standing in 5 ft of it.

sudo you can do all the things you stated, but you won't. because you are a lazy moron who doesn't know that free speech is NOT absolute. in marbury v madison, the court ruled in 1801 that IT was the highest arbiter in the land, no matter what the congress or executive branch did, the court could strike it down. thats why the kids down in texas are being returned to their parents.because the court over-ruled the local police and other authorities. words and actions do have consequences, your right to drink ends with other citizens right to be safe from you if you decide to drive. your right to own a gun stops with other citzens rights to life, if you decide to use it on one of them that is not causing you harm. your right to free speech ends when it can be construed to be malicious and does others harm. you don't like these constraints, but they are there to protect you as well as your fellow citizens. there are some constraints that i don't like, in fact more then i can go into here. what amazes me is how someone like you will use the court when you agree with it, and call others morons when you don't.[you have set yourself up as the highest arbiter in the land, you are more dangerous then any judge, or senator, or president. why? because you disagree with the very system we live under. you are an america hater. go to canada, or england, or mexico. and try these things, you will be in jail. you are a anarchist.

Here in the UK we'd chop the said students nuts off.

Oh...she's a woman...OK so we'd chop something off. (Ladies don't have nuts do they?)

I've taught for 22 years and I've heard it all. The school does indeed have "en loco parentis", basically your teacher is your parent while you are under their superstiotion. It is why I won't let a student leave campus while in my class or when being coached or tutored. Now, unless the blog was a school recommended or school sanctioned blog, then I don't see the problem. It is the equivalent of calling someone from schoool something bad while out at the mall..."oh that 'whatshername' she's a jerk..." and being suspended for it.

If the blog was not a school sponsored site, no matter how distasteful the comments, they should have left it alone. Everyone has a right to vent as long as it is not in a way that violates the rights of others.

I've taught for 22 years and I've heard it all. The school does indeed have "en loco parentis", basically your teacher is your parent while you are under their supervision. It is why I won't let a student leave campus while in my class or when being coached or tutored. Now, unless the blog was a school recommended or school sanctioned blog, then I don't see the problem. It is the equivalent of calling someone from schoool something bad while out at the mall..."oh that 'whatshername' she's a jerk..." and being suspended for it.

If the blog was not a school sponsored site, no matter how distasteful the comments, they should have left it alone. Everyone has a right to vent as long as it is not in a way that violates the rights of others.

Whoops!!! Tried to edit "supervision" and hit submit. Don't know what I was thiking.

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640-802 Not Cool To Call Your Teacher "Douchebag" on Your Blog, Says US Court of Appeals What are you trying to pull! I'm done.