Party's Over, Bloggers: CBS, NBC, Fox Threaten Free Clip Service Redlasso

just further proof that these networks don't deserve the future. "we are fine with people grabbing clips as long as they do it through hulu or msnbc.com"???

it's all bits man. it's all just bits.

i'm a big user, fan, supporter of redlasso. i hope they survive this unenlightened bullying

By allowing their video to be embedded in other sites, NBC is taking a pretty enlightened approach. Don't you think they have the right to ask that people use msnbc's or hulu's player when they take and use NBC video?

The problem with the argument about going to Hulu or MSNBC is simple, they don't give the user what they want in a timely fashion. Content owners still want to 'push' clips and shows to the audience on their terms. This action will simply cause users to continue to record and upload content to sites like YouTube where it's even harder for content owners to track and allows sites to hide behind DMCA rules.

Well, they took the strategy of "seek forgiveness later rather than permission beforehand" it seems.

Wonder how this will work out for them.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it an 'enlightened approach;' these media giants stand to gain by being the ones associated with the top stories--what better way to increase their hotness factor than to get their sound-bites (sound-bytes?) all over sites like perez and others? It seems to me that desiring royalties on that kind of free advertising is asking a bit much.

i wish all tv shows were streamed and archived on-demand on the internet.

No sense in being "hot" if there's no business model in it. If you check out Keith Olbermann's ratings, I don't think you'd argue that he is helped at all by clips on Perez Hilton or anywhere else for that matter. But NBC makes plenty on his TV show--and very little on clips on the Web.

The bottom line is that all these clips are copyrighted, and Redlasso doesn't have permission to distribute them. Nothing else matters at all.

If you don't defend your IP rights, you lose them.

This is pretty ridiculous... the vast majority of blogs use the footage in order to comment on it. That's fair use. People aren't going to the blogs to see the network content, they're going to see the commentary on the network content. The value is in the commentary, not the footage.

GREAT news! Finally content owners are waking up and fighting for their legal rights! Give those thieves a kick in the butt!

(Now, funny that you used Scribd in your post. I wonder how long will it take until book publishers finally aim to shut down that service, another service that is popular JUST because of the many copyright protected books that can be found there, while the service happily hides behind DMCA?)

quote:
The bottom line is that all these clips are copyrighted, and Redlasso doesn't have permission to distribute them. Nothing else matters at all.

Bullshit!

Once a public broadcast is made it's similar to throwing your trash away. Anyone can do as they please with it. And for f*** sake let's keep this in perspective. What these idiots usually babble about incessantly and in idiot groups is not worth the time of day nor does it , or will it ever, enrich my life one iota. Seems to me they are getting too big for their britches and seem to have an overly inflated view of themselves and their lame, generally, content. MSNBC and HULU? I've tried both and tend to stear clear. very clear. I say, tell them all to go f off.

Mike M's comment sounds about right...but I'm no lawyer. Is this clearly fair use? And, if so, are they just threating Redlasso knowing they probably can't afford to risk the legal fees?

This is fair use.

Fair use covers what many of Redlasso's users are doing, but it certainly doesn't cover Redlasso, which is making unlicensed copies for commercial use.

I dont know why online media company's keep dealing with hollywood. All you will do is end up in court. FYI ONLINE MEDIA...support indy content online. http://abstract10.com we have an entire library of free legal content for bloggers or anyone else to use. dont deal with old hollywood, duh!

Wow. What did the folks @Redlasso think would happen?

Wow. What did the folks @Redlasso think would happen?

What was RedLasso thinking? They are showing content owners a simple and clean solution that has the potential to satisfy everyone's interest.

Content owners (and advertisers) are satisfied because RedLasso knows exactly what is being clipped, where it's embedded and where viewers are located. It's not a far stretch to imagine the addition of controls over the distribution once content owners have this data.

Users are satisfied because they have nearly immediate access to the broadcast content they want, with the ability to clip exactly the portion they want (not what content owners define).

The alternative is to continue to let sites like YouTube build a business by hiding behind the unanticipated side effects of DMCA. It's in YouTube's best interest to continue to claim ignorance about their ability to know what's being hosted and streamed from their site.

In the end, I believe RedLasso has shown content owners the way to solve the problems they have with sites like YouTube while giving them the data and control and users what they want, content the way they want it.

It's clear that they thought, a la YouTube, that they could get super-charged growth and deal with the copyright issues later. And I'm guessing they've had some discussions with the networks for a while -- the service has been all over Huffpo, et al for many months, so the nets could have sent the C&D a long time ago. The interesting question if it does go down: What happens to the sites who've been using it to super-charge their growth, too?

quote:
Once a public broadcast is made it's similar to throwing your trash away. Anyone can do as they please with it.


BULLSHIT!
You leave the keys to your car in the public's plain site and I can then take your car for a ride? Is that 'fair use'. Intellectual rights are just a important and personal property rights.
What RedLasso is doing is wrong, and just plain against the law, especially when they are projecting making $500,000 in revenue this year.

Robert - I believe the $500,000 projection is based on actual content deals. As far as I know Redlasso has never made a dime off of any content they do not have agreements with the content owner.

I hope this C&D finally gives the fair use advocates platform to defend their position. It's clear that there's plenty of room to argue that short clips used within the context of someone elses content (blogging, news shows, entertainment shows, etc). RedLasso's battle is over creating the platform that makes it easy for users to find and create the clips. There are already plenty of media monitoring companies out there that already do this for a fee to customers, but RedLasso has taken this capability to the public.

Yea, shame on those content owners for protecting their rights to the content they made and/or produced! They should just stream it for free on the net through third parties they have no control over, because after all, it doesn't cost them anything to make it.

to Alex: Amen

to Alex: Yeah, lets just rely on sites that profit from advertising around copyrighted content while hiding behind DMCA... YouTube is a step backwards. I bet if RedLasso goes down that the content owners will simply copy their lead in sites like Hulu...

Well, I must say, I *DID* think networks were allowing this. And I use RedLasso every day!

That said, I wonder what these networks CAN do. They own commercial content, but distribute through public airspace. It's not like E! or Comedy Central is suing, who could potentially lose money through carriage fees by having their channel on "tape delay" online for free.

AND RedLasso is not altering the networks content in any way, shape or form. All the same original commercials are there. This is unauthorized, but, advertisers are getting DOUBLE the exposure, for free. Sure, it's easier to skip over them on RedLasso, but it's as easy on TiVo as well. Or with a VCR.

And as someone else mentioned before, RedLasso has been around for MONTHS, on high-profile web sites. So why strike now, as opposed to before, when it wasn't AS popular?

The big advantage to using RedLasso (or even Hulu) over just regular NBC clips is: You can MAKE your own clip. Maybe I wanted to include the scene before, or two scenes after, what NBC has online. If I'm "limited" by them, then I don't have total control over what I want to share. And if I CAN get that total control, well, why not get it?

I absolutely and totally support copyright holder's rights. The problem is, RedLasso is NOT a great player for watching a whole episode, and it is EXACTLY like the public broadcast. They do not adulterate it in any way. The networks still have a great case, but, it's not as terrible as it potentially could have been. And frankly, I hope they can work out some sort of compromise to continue RedLasso, even if it is a 3-hour tape delay or something for the west coast.

Charles, you're correct in much of your analysis, but RedLasso is definitly not intended to be used as a TiVo. Unfortunately the user interface may promote this type of behavior which will need to be addressed without limiting the clipping functionality.

RedLasso's business was never intended for watching entire episodes, unlike Hulu which is. But rather, RedLasso is in a great position to promote back to sites like Hulu for viewers that want to watch the entire episode. To me, adding this ability to the RedLasso player would be the right thing to do. Imagine watchinga clip from a TV show and linking back to the entire episode on Hulu?

I know RedLasso very well, formerly inside and now outside. There is no doubt or question that the service is cutting edge and more than very useful. I think the only question to answer is: Is RedLasso generating income, either directly or indirectly, on the backs of these content owners? I think a reasonable argument could be made that they are. Like it or not, and I dont like it by the way, I think the content owners have a legitimate argument. Contrary to the article, I also know that the networks were approached, aggresively, by RedLasso in an attempt to get permission and head off these types of issues. I also know that informally the networks were impressed with RedLasso's technology and expressed great interest. It is my feeling that the content owners, outside of a few cable news networks, really didn't take these guys seriously or were so bogged down by big corporate burocracy they couldn't make agreements. Big mistake. The Lasso is out there now. Like the old atage states : "There is no such thing as bad publicity" I think that the ultra sharp guys at RedLasso will come out of this s**t storm smelling like a rose. So, save your legal fees network guys and embrace RedLasso already. Make a buck or two from it. Hey, it could only add to your bottom lines anyway. And don't fool yourself with Hulu. Compared to RedLasso you are a Football Bat, Soccer Hoop, Baseball Tire. And you don't need a Bat in Football a Hoop in Soccer or a Tire in Baseball. What you are is content and the internet, including RedLasso, needs content. So I say stop hiding behind the courts come to terms with RedLasso and make the internet a better place.

I know RedLasso very well, formerly inside and now outside. There is no doubt or question that the service is cutting edge and more than very useful. I think the only question to answer is: Is RedLasso generating income, either directly or indirectly, on the backs of these content owners? I think a reasonable argument could be made that they are. Like it or not, and I dont like it by the way, I think the content owners have a legitimate argument. Contrary to the article, I also know that the networks were approached, aggresively, by RedLasso in an attempt to get permission and head off these types of issues. I also know that informally the networks were impressed with RedLasso's technology and expressed great interest. It is my feeling that the content owners, outside of a few cable news networks, really didn't take these guys seriously or were so bogged down by big corporate burocracy they couldn't make agreements. Big mistake. The Lasso is out there now. Like the old atage states : "There is no such thing as bad publicity" I think that the ultra sharp guys at RedLasso will come out of this s**t storm smelling like a rose. So, save your legal fees network guys and embrace RedLasso already. Make a buck or two from it. Hey, it could only add to your bottom lines anyway. And don't fool yourself with Hulu. Compared to RedLasso you are a Football Bat, Soccer Hoop, Baseball Tire. And you don't need a Bat in Football a Hoop in Soccer or a Tire in Baseball. What you are is content and the internet, including RedLasso, needs content. So I say stop hiding behind the courts come to terms with RedLasso and make the internet a better place.

redlasso = napster

with the same ending.

Venture Cap guys, kiss your $$$ goodbye.

This thing is completely illegal.

Oh, and for those of you who think it should be OK, I would like the pink slip to your car - since you have no problem with theft, I'm sure you will think I'm forward thinking and enlightened when I take your vehicle - after all, it's not like you worked hard for it.

lewis

What's your point of view with YouTube then? YouTube clearly has the ability to filter content (eg. pornography), yet you can still get illegally uploaded content on their site every day of the week.

I don't understand this 'stealing a car and "stealing TV content" analogy.

The networks still own their shows. Nobody is taking it away from them. If someone steals my car then I don't own it anymore. It's no longer in my possession because someone TOOK IT AWAY FROM ME.

Some of you guys come up with the dumbest analogies. LOL

Redlasso's Letter to Bloggers
-----------------------------
Dear Bloggers and friends of Redlasso,

We would like to thank you for using Redlasso. We have built this tool with you in mind. It is your support that has proven that Redlasso is a relevant distribution channel, and it is your continued support that will help us achieve our goals as the bridge between the blogging community and the publishers.

Redlasso believes in, and encourages the proper use of copyrighted material. We launched our site as a solution for publishers, bloggers, and advertisers to the very real problem of untraceable video on the internet.

As you probably already know, Redlasso received a cease and desist letter from several media companies yesterday.

Although we have great respect for the media companies involved, we strongly disagree with the letter’s conclusion. The media companies are asking us for a response by May 29th. We are currently reviewing the letter and plan to respond in due time.

We were disappointed with the letter, especially given our transparent and open approach with the major content providers. We have been upfront in all of our discussions over the past two years including providing site logins, updates on our traction in the marketplace, and our business model. We will continue with our open approach as we continue to look to enter partnering agreements with all publishers.

This will not affect the usability of the Redlasso site. We are open for business and will remain so as we continue the discussions.

Our goal from the outset has been to develop a platform that will be beneficial to content providers, the commentators in the blogosphere and ultimately to people who visit these sites.

The Beta you have been participating in was devised to demonstrate that there is a demand for this type of service. We have not earned any revenue from the site and it is our full intention to get agreements in place with content providers so they can share in the opportunities and revenues enabled by Redlasso’s tools. We also believe that you should share in this revenue.

We believe we offer a valuable service for several reasons:

1) Redlasso brings order to the use of content by providing content producers a reliable means for tracking video and audio usage on the internet. The “Redlasso player” is replacing “untraceable players” on many blogs, so partnering with Redlasso will finally enable a profitable blogging distribution model for content providers.

2) We have addressed the specific needs of the blogger distribution channel. You have told us you want a single site giving you the ability to search, and create limited duration clips of, broadcast media to meet your mission of covering and commenting on daily events in the news.

3) We are a media tool center for bloggers. We are at your service as you continue to create news about news.

4) You have made the Redlasso Beta a success demonstrated by the 24 million uniques and 10 million video plays in April.

Redlasso wants to keep the dialogue open between us at all times. We want to hear from you.

We in turn will keep you apprised of our progress with our talks with content owners.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

Thank you again for your faithful patronage and support.

Sincerely,
Redlasso’s Management Team

It amazes me that some VC firm and the Redlasso folks think that what they are doing is so unique or thoughtful as to put time and money into it without dealing with the real issue - the issue of copyright. I honestly hope that no one actually thought that this was an original idea. Think about it - red lasso is basically redistributing in a time shifted manner, content that they hijacked from a cable system. Whoa! No way! Who thought of that? - well, actually, we all knew that would be something that technologically we could do with no problem - it is the legal issues that are such a burden and it is the legal issues (mainly that far out concept of ownership). The search capability of RedLasso is a joke - they read the CC in line 21 of the VBI in the signal - and then search it and return the video asset that has those keywords in the CC - not exactly rocket science.

Now, one counter argument might be well Slingbox does the same thing. Well, no Slingbox doesn't do anything like this currently. Slingbox allows one user (ONE USER) to access his or her cable output from a remote location. The user cannot see the cable box of his girlfriend two states away, nor can the girlfriend see his cable box. While I believe the concept of fair use is strecteched even with SlingBox - Redlassoo isn't even on the same planet in terms of legal standing.

A few notes about the Redlasso presser:

"Redlasso believes in, and encourages the proper use of copyrighted material."

This statement is hysterical. RedLasso - your business model is based on the concept of stealing something that does not belong to you. You steal video from a cable system (and then up the value chain all the way to the companies and people who pay millions and spend countless hours producing this high quality content) and you then pass it along to millions of people - without ever having consent, approval, or any revenue generating model for the content owner in place. Let me ask you this "Red Lasso Management Team" - is it ok for me to take the output of my cable box, put a few splits and boosters in the system, and then pass that cable system to all of my neighbors? That is EXACTLY what you are doing - with one major additional legal no no in what you are doing - not only are you stealing the video signals, you are distributing them over DMA, State, and National market lines thereby violating the terms agreed to by the actors, producers, content owners, broadcasters, cable channels, cable systems - not to mention the international laws associated with distribution of content etc...

"You have made the Redlasso Beta a success demonstrated by the 24 million uniques and 10 million video plays in April."

You are providing free cable over the internet without any geographical restrictions - oh, and you are providing it for free - did you really question if you would have trouble getting people to sign up? Also, 10 million video plays in a month - probably time for the "beta" classification to be removed - your simple, yet highly illegal concept works.

"Redlasso wants to keep the dialogue open between us at all times. We want to hear from you. Sincerely, Redlasso’s Management Team "


Note to PR folks - generally, signing something as "management team" should be reserved for a sign hanging on the bathroom door of a convenient store like - "The bathroom is out of operation...Sincerely - The Management Team".

It amazes me that some VC firm and the Redlasso folks think that what they are doing is so unique or thoughtful as to put time and money into it without dealing with the real issue - the issue of copyright. I honestly hope that no one actually thought that this was an original idea. Think about it - red lasso is basically redistributing in a time shifted manner, content that they hijacked from a cable system. Whoa! No way! Who thought of that? - well, actually, we all knew that would be something that technologically we could do with no problem - it is the legal issues that are such a burden and it is the legal issues (mainly that far out concept of ownership) that must be overcome before a business model like this will work. The search capability of RedLasso is a joke - they read the CC in line 21 of the VBI in the signal - and then search it and return the video asset that has those keywords in the CC - not exactly rocket science.

Now, one counter argument might be well Slingbox does the same thing. Well, no Slingbox doesn't do anything like this currently. Slingbox allows one user (ONE USER) to access his or her cable output from a remote location. The user cannot see the cable box of his girlfriend two states away, nor can the girlfriend see his cable box. While I believe the concept of fair use is strecteched even with SlingBox - Redlassoo isn't even on the same planet in terms of legal standing.

A few notes about the Redlasso presser:

"Redlasso believes in, and encourages the proper use of copyrighted material."

This statement is hysterical. RedLasso - your business model is based on the concept of stealing something that does not belong to you. You steal video from a cable system (and then up the value chain all the way to the companies and people who pay millions and spend countless hours producing this high quality content) and you then pass it along to millions of people - without ever having consent, approval, or any revenue generating model for the content owner in place. Let me ask you this "Red Lasso Management Team" - is it ok for me to take the output of my cable box, put a few splits and boosters in the system, and then pass that cable system to all of my neighbors? That is EXACTLY what you are doing - with one major additional legal no no in what you are doing - not only are you stealing the video signals, you are distributing them over DMA, State, and National market lines thereby violating the terms agreed to by the actors, producers, content owners, broadcasters, cable channels, cable systems - not to mention the international laws associated with distribution of content etc...

"You have made the Redlasso Beta a success demonstrated by the 24 million uniques and 10 million video plays in April."

You are providing free cable over the internet without any geographical restrictions - oh, and you are providing it for free - did you really question if you would have trouble getting people to sign up? Also, 10 million video plays in a month - probably time for the "beta" classification to be removed - your simple, yet highly illegal concept works.

"Redlasso wants to keep the dialogue open between us at all times. We want to hear from you. Sincerely, Redlasso’s Management Team "


Note to PR folks - generally, signing something as "management team" should be reserved for a sign hanging on the bathroom door of a convenient store like - "The bathroom is out of operation...Sincerely - The Management Team".

This hubub proves how the incumbent old media hectors STILL to this day don't get the internet and the new economics of the long tail and "moving the freeline"...

Watch closely what's been happening in the music space. The smartest bands have already figured out that their initial song offerings are nothing but a promotional loss leader to get mind-share, they make all of their profits on the back-end with live shows, fan materials, special cuts, etc. Why? Because in this new world of the long tail, it is harder and harder for anyone to ramp up any significant mind-share/attention! Most bands should be so lucky that people would want to "steal" their music (i.e. take it for free). Most would have to pay people to take it...

Back to the news networks: they should be ECSTATIC for RedLasso or anyone else to repurpose their content and bring it in front of many more people that way. Once a news-hour has passed and the ads that were embedded ran, the value goes to near 0.
That's why it's called "old news" :)

It's really cute that they'd rather have you watch clips on their controlled sites, but that misses the point completely about the potential added-value of blog commentary and (both by the author and in the comments). Of course it's not surprising, because they still largely have no clue about how web 2.0 works.

If they were smart, they say to Redlasso: Use our stuff all you want, here, we'll make it even easier for you, under these conditions: We get to control the start-up still frame (including embedded links possibly) and the fade out/end frame. Or at least one of the two. Free advertisement for them all over the net, where they can THEN link to their other walled/controlled archives, etc. etc.

And again, it's about mind-share: If they could pay someone to constantly replay their BRANDED content and create mind-share over and above the number of live viewers of the 24 hour networks (an anemic number...), they would/should. Wake up people, this is a whole new ballgame. Ignore this fact at your peril.

What they really want is for someone to see a clip of say Keith Olberman on Huffington Post and say to themselves: I had better catch what this guy will say tonight LIVE. (If the blog post or comments/discussion spurred on such a decision, even better.)

Wake up.

I would like to point out that a viable model for obtaining free, licensed, news, sports and entertainment content already exists at http://www.thenewsroom.com. Users may embed fully licensed news and information from more than 300 content sources as well as share in the advertising revenue. The Voxant Newsroom network currently consists of about 30,000 specialty websites and blogs.

We have been averaging more than 11 million unique visitors over the past 4 months, with more than 30 million video streams each month. These are not internal numbers, they are reported publically by the Internet audience measurement firm, comScore. Voxant has developed a viable economic model to distribute high-quality, professionally produced content to millions of viewers each month. The content is free, fully licensed, and web publishers and bloggers share in the advertising revenue stream.

In closing, Voxant has always believed that copyrights matter. We recognize that Web publishers, advertisers and content providers have everything to win from respecting licensing agreements.

Fred Krazeise
Voxant Media Relations

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Given their attitude, it seems Redlasso wouldn't mind if I stopped by their offices and stole some of their computers and sold them on the street and keep the profit for myself, just like they are doing with the Networks content.

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