Steve Jobs: Flash Not Good Enough For iPhone. Is Microsoft's Silverlight?

Apple supports standards based technologies: HTML, CSS, Javascript and H.264.

Aren't these good enough that you have to promote a proprietary technology? Microsoft and Adobe hope you agree with them.

HG, that's nice, but Web sites aren't being built with just HTML, CSS, Javascript, and H.264. Will every Web publisher make a special version of its site for iPhone users? No. Will most? No. So either Apple has to figure out how to support what publishers use, or iPhone users have to settle for a less-complete version of the Web.

I can't imagine Apple would pick Siverlight over Flash. It is in Apple's DNA to only go with good technology; not to compromise user's experience.

Having said that, I'm in no hurry for Flash, either. CPU (and battery)-sucking banner ads? No thanks.

oh by the way, is quicktime standardized yet?

Apple users may be missing out on a large chunk of the web, but is it an important chunk? Hardly.

"Web sites aren't being built with just HTML, CSS, Javascript, and H.264."

Where have you been, stuck in the '90s? Outside of YouTube (which is migrating to H.264), there's nary a drop of Flash on Google or any of the major Web 2.0 properties out there. AJAX rules the roost. Actually, I can't speak for Facebook; I don't use it. Yahoo! has a smattering of Flash, but the Y!UI libraries show how a compelling DHTML (HTML, Javascript, and CSS) experience can be made. DHTML is more than adequate for the task; if your designer can't get the job done without falling back on Flash, get a new designer.

Try surfing with the Flash plug-in disabled; you'll find the experience much smoother than you would be led to believe by the Adobe marketing department. Flash was created to get around inconsistencies in browsers: fallout from the browser wars of the '90s. Since Microsoft has recently back-tracked on their attempt to freeze standards at the (broken) IE7 level, expect far more progress in the consistency area.

Flash is good for only two things: games and ads (maybe video, but H.264 is much more efficient and video sharing sites need to squeeze out every drop of bandwidth). Apple is interested in neither for the iPhone, or even the desktop. As far as corporate navigation goes, any company that uses Flash for navigation beyond a worthless splash screen is more than likely only supporting Internet Explorer, so there's no loss for Apple there.

Flash/AIR and Silverlight are both battling for control of the Rich Experience Web, and as the number of non-Flash, non-Silverlight web sites have shown, the Rich Experience Web does not need either one. Jobs is unlikely to cede control of his user experience to Adobe (which can barely get Flash to run on a full-fledged Macintosh) or to Microsoft (for obvious reasons).

In many ways, Apple is doing a stealth grab for the Rich Experience Web with WebKit: by providing a portable reference platform for HTML+AJAX+CSS+SVG, it can influence W3C standards in ways that benefit its needs. Even Adobe is controlled by Apple in that regard: Adobe uses WebKit as the rendering agent for AIR.

Do you really think a megalomaniac like Steve Jobs is going to leave the implementation of the user experience to another company, especially Microsoft? Do you?

Actually, Silverlight is a standards based technology. The root is the ECMA standards for the CLR which underlies .NET

http://www.mono-project.com/ECMA

which has led to the 'Moonlight' project for Linux.

http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight

There's no legal reason that Apple couldn't ship Mono/Moonlight analogous projects with [Mac] OS X, should they decide that some kind of rich media Web framework was a necessity. And that would quite arguably be a smarter move than supporting Flash.

@Rob... well said, my friend. SAI has been banging this Flash on the iPhone drum for too long, and it's just silly. I've been surfing heavily on my iPhone for 7 months and have never once missed having Flash on it.

Just weeks ago SAI published a bogus rumor from GearLive as if it were fact that Flash was coming to the iPhone without giving any skeptical thought to the very real barriers that Jobs just outlined.

On one hand, the writers here at SAI are always so proud to tell us that none of them owns or uses an iPhone, but on the other hand, they know what the iPhone needs to be "successful". It's amusing.

And you're absolutely right. Any designer who is using Flash for website navigation should be put up against the figurative wall. NOBODY is doing that anymore.

So far, Apple has ignored the linux community. Silverlight is not yet linux compatible (Moonlight is probably a year away from any serious adoption). Until it is, and until Siverlight 1.1 (which is currently alpha) fully matures, there will be a void, and what flash (or flash lite) can offer today and now will be brought up.
@Rob: Flash is good for a lot of things (in addition to just games and ads) including mainstream websites, if you know how to use it correctly. It is more work, if you run a small site, but is probably the same amount of work (to searchandize your content etc.,) if you run a mainstream site.

I explained why WebKit is Apple's answer to Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX here:

Runtime wars (1): Does Apple have an answer to Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX?
http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/runtime-wars/


Runtime wars (2): Apple’s answer to Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX
http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/

Flash is already in the rear view mirror for any serious web developer, especially any developer that has any usability wherewithall.

The real action for the iPhone is Web 2.0, which is aggressively anti-Flash.

It is hard to take anyone seriously who is beating the Flash drum. There is tons of downside, and seriously little upside. Flash adds a very opaque extra layer that is just glunk that jams up what should be a svelte web application.

Apple should stick to there guns, and they will. Flash, with it's outrageous overhead and memory leaks, has no place on a mobile device.

Hallelujah brother...

tomorrow apple will announce a sliverlight competitor

@David: Psst. A couple of us finally broke down and got iPhones. They are indeed pretty cool.

Congratulations Peter...

I expect you guys will enjoy them. I'll be curious to see if you find the absence of Flash as being an impediment to your enjoyment of the phone in real-world usage. My guess is you won't, at least not to the extent that you'd be willing to sacrifice the battery life.

In another SAI piece on this issue (regarding the bogus GearLive rumor) I asked people to cite what I was missing by not having Flash on the iPhone, and the best they could come up with was Hulu and Jib Jab cartoons.

I think I'll manage somehow :)

Flash does not equal "rich Internet experience" like Flash proponents like to say as if a fact. Some would argue it is 'hijacked experience' and 90% ugly, badly designed, and annoyance. Whatever argument for it has a counter argument, but no matter. Flash has lost its chance to supplant the standard browser as the de facto RIA. By the end of this year 90% ASP.NET sites on 90% IE of 90% of desktops (approx.) that run Windows will replace anything Flash with Silverlight, starting with all the major commercial portals.

I wonder how many people clamoring for Flash Lite on the iPhone predicted the creation and success of Pixar, iMac, iTunes, iPod, and iPhone? Jobs has more advanced inside track and foresight to the hi-tech wold than 99.9% of us. Wait a while and see before dumping on him for not following the herd of sheep like the rest.

Apple's decision has nothing to do with the technological limitations of the Flash platfom.

To all those banging the anti-Flash drum...

[Flash Myths and Misinformation http://aralbalkan.com/1004]

The question is whether Apple will look to SVG as an alternative for Flash. SVG is lightweight, open standard, and is already supported by Firefox, Opera, and Safari.

I've speculated about this on my blog. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daniel
Opera Software

There are other reasons to be able to use Flash on the iPhone.

I, for one, use Flash as a UI and concepting tool. Such a use on the iPhone would be great. Mocking up app functionality, application visualizations and UI's in Flash as opposed to committing to an actual development regiment is much more cost-effective.

Especially on a device such as the iPhone where the presentation layer plays a big part of the user experience, a tool like Flash would be indispensable.

@Rob "Flash is good for only two things: games and ads (maybe video, but H.264 is much more efficient and video sharing sites need to squeeze out every drop of bandwidth)."

VP6 is as efficient as H.264 for video and easier on the processor. So actually that would make it more efficient.

Impressive line up with MLB, and the Olympics. Flash still provides the superior developer platform. And the average .Net developer is a high school graduate. Adobe and Flash will win this fight.

@"Silverlight Will Suck"

I'm a decade or more from highschool and don't user Flash or Silverlight.

Averages are misleading.

The "average" american makes $200,000+ a year. Do you? Do I?
Only when I qualify that statement by saying "99% of the wealth is in the control of 1% of the population" can you realize why the "average" is $200,000. Or not, hence your statement.

All most all my clients say Yes-Flash for its fast rendering capabilities and eye-catching interactivities. Pretty sure SL cant beat Flash in this war until MS starts thinking innovative.

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