Do Apple's Macs Need Blu-ray? (AAPL)*

Dan Frommer | January 4, 2008 1:17 PM

Will Steve Jobs jump into the silly hi-def DVD format war? Some analysts -- most recently AmTech's Shaw Wu -- expect Jobs to spend some of his Macworld keynote on Jan. 15 unveiling Apple's HD entertainment strategy, including support for Sony's Blu-ray disc format.

Why Blu-ray? Wu doesn't offer much explanation, but notes that Apple's good friend Disney (DIS) -- where Jobs is the single largest shareholder -- is in the Blu-ray camp, and that rival Microsoft (MSFT) backs the competing HD-DVD format.

Consumers haven't really adopted either format yet. Does Apple need to? Perhaps it'd be a nice add-on option for its high-end, creative-type customers, who actually might need to read a Blu-ray disc or burn a 50-gigabyte, dual-layer disc full of movie files, hi-res photos, or whatever.

What might hold Apple (AAPL) back? Cost is one issue: An internal Blu-ray drive costs between $250 and $600 retail, depending on manufacturer and features. Apple obviously doesn't pay anything close to that, but whatever it doesn pay, it's much more than a conventional DVD drive, which now goes for about $30 retail. So a Blu-ray drive might make a good feature on Apple's $2500+ Mac Pro. But it'd be hard to stomach for entry-level iMac buyers paying $1,200.

But a bigger problem: Getting in the middle of Blu-ray/HD-DVD format war is fundamentally unJobsian. Why take sides in a war that no one is winning? Even if Blu-ray does eventually win out, in the near-term, Apple customers would find themselves with expensive computers that can't play all the movies they want. Apple is perfectly happy to play hardball with partners/competitors, but it does its best not to upset customers. Why change now?

We think that if Apple adds hi-def disc drives to their Macs at all, they'll do what Shaw Wu describes as a less likely option: insisting on costlier -- but more useful -- Blu-ray/HD-DVD hybrid drives.

Update @ 4:30 p.m.: Is the format war over? Time Warner's Warner Bros. has dropped HD-DVD support and is going exclusively Blu-ray. This could tip the format battle to Sony's Blu-ray -- making Apple's rumored Blu-ray tie-up more practical.

See Also:
Toshiba: Please Don't Return Your HD DVD Players
The Macworld Predictions Game: Time To Place Your Bets!
Wu's Macworld Picks: MacBook Mini, Blu-Ray, Movie Rentals
Five Million iPhones By Macworld? Nope.
Apple At Macworld: Tiny MacBook, No 3G iPhone?

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Dansaytoday said:

Jul. 14, 11:45 AM

Well, blu-ray is necessary for editors. Mac is mostly is used as edit machine with final cut pro. Thus, would you need a blu-ray reader or burner?

My answer is yes, unless you need to duplicate or mass replicate. There are companies like http://www.usadubs.com which take your material from a hard drive and make blu ray disc.

Ed Bishop said:

Jan. 08, 12:54 PM

I'm getting VERY impatient for a cost & time efficient backup.
50GB media is starting to get there; ten disks will back up one of my 500GB drives. If I could totally automate the process I'd be very satisfied, but that's probably too much to hope for.
I really don't care if the Blu-Ray drive is internal or external, as long as it burns at its maximum speed.

Dan said:

Jan. 06, 11:45 AM

I would buy the argument about jokes not being funnier etc. if we were talking about book editions. However movies as either art or entertainment have big visual and audio component that are important for full enjoyment. This may not be important for movies like "knocked up" but is for those that are on the Oscar list for cinematography, special effects, sound design, etc.

Jeff said:

Jan. 05, 1:35 PM

>HD does not make the jokes funnier, it does not make the stories
>more gripping.

This is true, but there are narrative and cinemagraphic techniques that can only be done on HD. For example, it's possible to communicate the scale of the shot in High Def - that can't be done in standard definition because the resolution is too poor. So, it's likely that moviemaking will change around the new capabilities of HD.

James said:

Jan. 05, 12:38 PM

william:

'Who wants to pay $25-$35 for a movie that costs $10-$15 in a conventional DVD?"

Funny, I remember your argument from the days when VHS was being overtaken by DVD.

The fact is that this format will be good for business. With DVD sales slumping recently, the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is giving consumers another reason to buy optical media.

And in spite of people calling it a niche market (which it is at the moment), high-def media is tracking at the same level DVD was at this stage in its lifespan. Which is pretty incredible when you consider that DVD didn't require you to upgrade your TV to see the benefits.

As for Apple, I've always thought this move made sense for them...even before Warner's announcement. I's been clear for the past year or so that Blu-ray is the consumer's choice, even if it was foisted on them in the form of the Playstation 3.

Besides, it's not as if Apple have a history of waiting until a technology is ridiculously low-priced before taking advantage of it. How many years have Mac computers shipped with LCD screens? The prices for those have only recently (in the past two years or so) fallen below $200. A few years back, they were in the $500-800 range. Ditto Macs with CD burners in the mid to late 90s, and DVD burners in the early 21st.

Dan Frommer said:

Jan. 04, 7:14 PM

I guess it would be good to point out today's news: Warner ditching HD-DVD for Blu-Ray. Now Apple + Blu-Ray makes more sense.

Dave Anonymous said:

Jan. 04, 6:33 PM

High definition sound or video is quite important to geeks and nerds. It might also be important to sports enthusiasts, but for most people it is unimportant.

HD does not make the jokes funnier, it does not make the stories more gripping.

The DVD took over from VHS, because it was a more compact medium, and no rewinding was necessary. These formats do not seem to add any new features other than a clearer picture.

scott said:

Jan. 04, 3:45 PM

it is also probably worth noting that Apple is planning to attend one of the Final Cut Pro Users Group meetings that is planning a "Super Meet" during the Macworld Expo. i can't remember where i read it exactly, but the report said that Apple had an annoucement to make at this meet up. i would think it might be an update to Final Cut Pro to support authoring to an HD format disc.

Phil said:

Jan. 04, 3:28 PM

About HD discs (any format):
An properly manufactured HD movie is amazing to watch on a 40+ TV. But half the HD movie are made from a DVD it seems. Some movies such as Blue Plant have a really nice quality and you can see details that you would be able to see on DVD, so yes I would pay more for a good HD movie, but it is true that DVD being 480p with a good upscale looks really nice.

About Download:
Sure, I don't care that much about the physical disk, although I still like it. But the problem, as other have mentionned, the infrastruct is NOT there, I don't want to wait hours to get a movie, and I don't want to pay a huge price to get a faster connection so that it would take less than an hour to download a movie. So download HD movie is not for today... in 5 - 10 years... absolutly.

David said:

Jan. 04, 3:24 PM

@Scott

This makes sense.

I'm proud of all of you for making this a civilized debate unlike those on engadget and gizmodo :)

scott said:

Jan. 04, 3:18 PM

the reason that Apple needs to include Blu-Ray or another High-Def disc format on their desktop computing platform has nothing to do with entertainment. instead, it is related directly to their video editing software solutions all support HD authoring, but not HD delivery. in otherwords you can capture, edit, and create high definition movies, but you can't share them in any meaningful manner except to down-res them to a standard DVD.

if i have a client that wants me to film their Wedding, they'll probably have a high def TV at home after the honeymoon. they may even ask me to film it in High Def, but with Final Cut Pro, i have no way to deliver them a High Def disc at this point.

scooter said:

Jan. 04, 3:11 PM

The infrastructure definitely is NOT there to support high definition downloads... yet. Within ten years or so, ultra-high-speed broadband will be ubiquitous, but in the meanwhile we need one high-def DVD format during the transition.

i'm high def said:

Jan. 04, 2:58 PM

@william

Agreed, it's the video quality that matters. I don't really care about the format but some people like to still have the physical disk...i just don't think the infrastructure is fully there to support hd downloads...so for now i'm buying disks to get 1080p until I someday have all my high def movies on a hard drive like I did with my CD collection a long time ago.

william said:

Jan. 04, 2:46 PM

John: Yes, I heard of Netflix (sold the stock recently for a nice profit, thanks). And no, I don't want to wait for the mailman, and no I don't care if they offer streaming downloads. The Netflix set-top box is a good idea though, sort of proves my point too.

High-def: If you want to pay twice as much for the same movie, that's fine by me. Hollywood crap that sucks in standard def sucks in high def too. Anyway, do you really want the "disk?" The high quality video is what matters to you, not the disk, right? Wouldn't you be better off with an HD download or a high quality video file on a data dvd than having to deal with a silly format war? The format war isn't about you, it's just about which company gets a recurring revenue stream from royalties on the various patents involved.

i'm high def said:

Jan. 04, 2:31 PM

I will pay $30 for a high def disk. looks amazing on 1080p TV's wigh uncompressed sound. Standard DVD is no comparason.

John C. Smith said:

Jan. 04, 2:29 PM

@ william:

Heard of Netflix?

David said:

Jan. 04, 2:23 PM

To reply quickly to my last post...I guess I'm off topic a bit from the Apple article... They should stay away from this war for now. There is no reason to enter into it. I work in Technology in a large corporation and no one I know uses High Def formats for data...movies and console gaming only. I don't see anyone seriously buying a high def player to watch movies on a computer.

william said:

Jan. 04, 2:23 PM

Who wants to pay $25-$35 for a movie that costs $10-$15 in a conventional DVD?

More importantly, with set-top boxes such as AppleTV, iPods with video, etc., who really wants any disk at all?

I think Apple will include such a drive in a Mac Pro for storage purposes where they may worthwhile and where the format doesn't matter as much. As for consumer Macs, they may as well let the formats battle into complete obscurity and press on with iTunes downloads.

David said:

Jan. 04, 2:19 PM

I agree, I hate it too. I have a great HDTV and watch high def movies on a BluRay player (PS3). PQ is great but I can only watch movies from certain studios (HD-DVD is in the same situation). Why do movie studios have to side with only one format? Warner is the only exception here but I hear they may be choosing a side too. So frusterating but at least I can watch most of my favorite movies.

I would rather not by an HD-DVD player to have to play some movies and another player for others. This makes no sense, But I'll have to if HD-DVD wins out :( Good thing their players are dirt cheap.

Please: Format fanboys stay away from killing a perfectly good debate!

John C. Smith said:

Jan. 04, 1:57 PM

I hate this war. All I want is (lower-case) hd-dvd -- but all signs say I should wait for the forthcoming better blu-ray players.

(I'm not a gamer -- and the dual format players are allegedly expensive dogs.)

Am I wrong?

Do Apple's Macs Need Blu-ray? (AAPL)*

Dan Frommer | January 4, 2008 1:17 PM

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